Mentinah Archives
The Mentinah Archives are ancient records of the Nemenhah tribe of Utah. They are the recorded history of the Nemenhah who trace their history back to the journey of Hagoth, the same as is mentioned in Alma in the Book of Mormon.
Alma 63:5-8
5 And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an exceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward.
6 And behold, there were many of the Nephites who did enter therein and did sail forth with much provisions, and also many women and children; and they took their course northward. And thus ended the thirty and seventh year.
7 And in the thirty and eighth year, this man built other ships. And the first ship did also return, and many more people did enter into it; and they also took much provisions, and set out again to the land northward.
8 And it came to pass that they were never heard of more. And we suppose that they were drowned in the depths of the sea. And it came to pass that one other ship also did sail forth; and whither she did go we know not.
The Archives start with the Book of Hagoth and tells his history and how he discovered and settled the lands north of the Colorado River. In the rest of the Archives, you will learn about familiar names that you can find in the Book of Mormon. People like Samuel the Lamanite who warned the Nephites of impending destruction if they don’t repent. He tells his story in Volume 1 as Shi-Muel and talks about his life and ministry. You will also learn about new people and places not mentioned in the Book of Mormon. The Land of the Nemenhah in Utah and her sister colony far to the east north of the Great Lakes. Ougou , a descendant of Hagoth, whom Jesus Christ set apart as Prophet when He appeared to the Nemenhah after He was resurrected. These are only two examples of the many things you will learn in these Archives. There are also many deep spiritual messages within the books not found in the Book of Mormon and a more detailed description of Temple practices of these ancient people. When you read these texts you will see where the Native American traditions and ceremonies came from. For example, the sweat lodge ceremony is, I believe, part of the Ammonite Ceremony found in the Archives.
These Archives may seem strange and unusual to those of you who are long-time members of the LDS Church and were warned that these should not be read or studied. I have to admit that I was at first a bit skeptical of these archives myself, being that these are not endorsed or recognized by the Church. After reading a few of these books and with much prayer and pondering I see no problem with studying these texts and to learn from them. They are no different than any other ancient texts from all parts of the world that have been found and translated. Accept for a few cultural differences, especially in the temple practices, I have found nothing that is in conflict with Church doctrine. Throughout these books, in almost every one, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is taught and there is a very deep profound love of God and His ways are found in the words written. If these were from Satan and meant to deceive us he would not have the Gospel of Christ throughout these texts.
Some people question whether these are real records or just works of fiction. Remember, these are family records not scriptures like the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I was told to treat these records the same as the Book of Mormon and seek the Holy Spirit for authentication. This is the only way to authenticate these records. Seek the Holy Spirit and use Him to help you understand what you are reading. When Joseph Smith was first translating the Book of Mormon very few people knew what he was doing and it wasn’t until many years later that we learn some of the details of what went on during that time. There were no artifacts or documentations to prove what he did was true or not. We only have testimonies of the witnesses. Joseph Smith also was not a member of the Church, for it did not exist until 1830, nor did he have the priesthood when he started translating. He only had the power of the Holy Spirit to guide him. It is the same with these Archives. The translators were either former members or non-members of the LDS Church. Do not let the words “former members” throw you off. If you look into the history of the eight witnesses of the Book of Mormon, two were ex-communicated and one left the Church. And yet they are still listed as credible witnesses of the Book of Mormon. These Archives are not the main focus of the Nemenhah people and they leave it up to the members of the tribe to read them and use them in their lives. There will be more records translated and printed soon. I wonder how much more history and spiritual lessons we can learn when these are released into the world.
This is from the main Mentinah website:
“The Mentinah Archives are the recorded histories of the people known anciently as the “Nemenhah.” These people trace their history from the journey of Hagoth into the Land Northward up to the present day. They were written upon plates of various metals and alloys of metals, processed animal hides and paper velum. The records were archived in several locations in North and Central America anciently, but the only surviving copies of the histories of the Nemenhah, of which we have anything to do, have been strictly guarded in the libraries of Sanpete County, Utah.”
My main focus of this blog site is to learn and present a history of the New World people based on my map and the Book of Mormon. I am going to use some Archive material to expand my theory and to get a better understanding of the Native American’s history. I am not going to go into the spiritual messages found in the Archives unless it relates to the history of the people. I will leave it up to you to learn and study these things. If I mention something spiritual, like temple practices, and discuss it it may bring arguements and confusions that I don’t want on this blog. If you are not comfortable with these archives or how they are presented please ignore them and don’t leave me nasty comments. This I will not tolerate. I don’t mind questions and discussions as long as they are civil and, remember, I am not an authority on these archives. I am learning as I go and I will present what I have learned on this blog.
The Book of Mormon and the other official scriptures are still central in my life. I will always uphold the doctrines and practices of the Church throughout my life. I am using these archives in my life to expand my knowledge and understanding of God and Christ and the history of the Book of Mormon peoples. I am treating these archives like the Apocrypha of the Bible and other ancient texts we have.
There are six volumes right now and you can either view them here or download them from a free download site. They are in PDF and so you will need a PDF viewer for online viewing.
I hope you will enjoy reading these texts and if you like them please feel free to share them with anyone you want to. Although these are copyrighted, the archivist and the translators wishes that these be given to everyone in the world. So, as long as you don’t change the wording or anything within the texts you can make as many copies as you wish.
Disclaimer: I am in no way a member or affiliated with the Nemenhah tribe or the Native American Church. I am only a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am doing this entirely on my own with no endorsements from the LDS Church or any other group, religious, political, etc.
Disclaimer: I am in no way a member or affiliated with the Nemenhah tribe or the Native American Church. I am only a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am doing this entirely on my own with no endorsements from the LDS Church or any other group, religious, political, etc.
Well, I’ve downloaded the six volumes. I guess it is about time I took a look at these records. Thanks for the links.
LDS Anarchist
April 6, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I am very interested in talking to you personally about the archives. My number if you’re interested (808)652-****.
Barbara Kaiwi
June 13, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Hi, Barbara! Since this is a public blog I changed the last four digits so that you won’t receive any phone calls from anyone you don’t know. I can’t call long distance so i will e-mail you soon. Thanks for your interest.
Randy
uft36
June 13, 2008 at 5:41 pm
I Am An Idigenous From New Zealand (Maori)
And our oral history ,handed dwn,
Tells of a Great Migration Across the Pacific,
7 GREAT CANOES arrived on Aoetearoa,
Kupe bought the Kumara (Sweet Potatoe) from the American continant,
i am a direct decendent of Kupe,
Nga Puhi……Rahiri……Hongi Hika….Hone heke…
The Treaty Of Waitangi , GODS PROMISE, will i now push for the INCLUSION OF ALL WHO CLAIM 2 b Decendents of Isreal and Judah, Find out what you can about the treaty of Waitangi,
Who hone heke , my Forefather , Help carry out the signing, as one puts it in fine context,
“Dishonour this covenant treaty, will bring certain doom on all pakeha (White Man), Honouring the treaty is honouring yourselfs and God, In his Promise 2 the World”
I HEREBY announce , Native American and Maori and also the pacific islands, and who else feels spiritually inclined to the Nemenhah,
Us Maoris are decendents of HAGOTH ,Son Of Hagoth,
Wearing traditional Paua (abiloni shell), We can navigate the waters of the pacific by use of Stars,
I LOVE MY BREATHEN With All My Spirit,
The nemenhah Records i study with dilligence,
The storys of My Family In America contained in the mentinah archives , ARE TRUE and through faith ,
Miricles are happening , i live with , and associate with the harshly dealt, persecuted, Barely surviving
AUSTRALIAN ABOURIGINALS, who are also GREAT CARETAKERS OF GRANDMOTHER EARTH, and GREAT PEACE IS WITH THEM, THE HURTING OF MY GRANDMOTHER IS STOPPING !!
Since the records of nemenhah, I have been overwhelmed by the spirit, And daily , MY ancestors tell me , We came out from the land of jerusalem,
Baptized Lds, I have seen the true power of THE NEMENHAH RECORDS, and the lds church , first,
shall remove the blasphemis Statue of THE SON /IN TEMPLE ROBE !!!!!!! BEARING HIS HOLY CHEST …
BLASPHEMY!!!! THE MOST DISGUSTING STATUE BEARING HIS HOLY ARM ,BIG BAD MISINTERPRETATION, GENTILE FULLNESS IS HERE , I HAVE HEARD THE VOICE OF THE LORD OF HOSTs , THE GOD OF ISRAEL, not the silent pierce, I HAVE HEARD THE VOICE OF MANY WATERS,EARTHQUAKES,THUNDER, LIGHTNING ROLLS IN UNISON WITH EVERY SYLLABLE HE SPOKE TO ME….
I WAS FRIGHTENED, TO MY MARROW, THIS EVENT HAPPENED 15 yrs AGO and I THREW IT TO THE BACK OF MY MIND NEVER TO REPEAT THIS TO ANYONE, BUT NOW IS THE TIME MY BREATHEN ,,,The Lord Spoke NINE SYLLABLES IN WHICH A TENTH SYLLABLE WOULD HAVE DESTROYED ME,literally to DEATH!! I HAVE NOT SPOKEN THIS TO MY PEOPLE WHO CAN BE VERY HARD OF HEART, but the blood that lies within me is surging and rising, i cant contain my SPIRITUAL EMOTION , so i preach the nemenhah ,ever so gently in my MUSIC,..FROM THE WEST ,I COME , WITH STRENGTH,MANA, FAITH , BELIEF I CAN DO WHAT GOD HAS ASKED OF TAPUSHERIFF,
T.W.Ratana…Prophet of the Maori People ,1908
SAYS Matua Tama Wairuatapu. amene
Tapu Sheriff
March 29, 2009 at 8:20 am
dude any other maoris who believe this stuff…give a contact…
landofthelongday
August 15, 2009 at 4:51 pm
The “Mentinah Archives” are a known forgery. Please see this article:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon241.html
Don’t fall for this nonsense!!
Duckie
May 29, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Duckie
It appears there was a misunderstanding. The article you sited as evidence “the “Mentinah Archives” are a known forgery” had nothing in it about the Archives. I am directly involved with the bringing forth of the Mentinah Archives. Christopher M. Nemelka is not involved in any way of the coming forth of these records. However, I do believe the article sited is very important and worthy of reading. There is a good lesson to be learned from that article. It clearly shows it is very important to not just believe something. If the Mentinah Archives are authentic, the Holy Ghost is very capable of confirming that truth. Most people who read this blog have gone through the process of getting that confirmation in knowing the Book of Mormon is authentic. So they are not strangers to that process and they are very capable in doing the same thing with the Mentinah Archives. (Those who do not know the process only need to find Mormon missionaries and they will be happy to teach it to them.) If the Archives are what they claim to be, then I highly suggest not to take them lightly, for there is a purpose in the Lord for them to be brought forth, that there is a reason He has requested we don’t keep them just to our people, but to release them so other peoples may have them. What the Lord wants you individually to do with them is between you and Him. If the Archives are not authentic, then I strongly suggest to go as far as you can from them or keep in mind they are works of fiction if you are just looking for good in them. You should only believe what the Holy Ghost confirms to be true no matter what you read, learn or listen to. This principle applies to all things.
Now, I have studied Christopher’s work which your article spoke of several years ago. I talked to the man on a couple occasions and through my study and prayers I received a witness from the Holy Ghost what the article states that he later admitted, that he made it up. But just because Christopher made it up, does not mean Joseph Smith made up the Book of Mormon. There will always be people like Christopher and there will also be people like Joseph. Just because there is one does not mean the one is the same as the other. There are even well meaning people who receive dreams, visions, etc., etc. How can one know what is true and what is not. There is only one way; a proper confirmation from the Holy Ghost.
Forgive me, but the article you sited brought up some feelings and thoughts I wish to express to my brothers the LDS. I know the Mentinah Archives are authentic simply because I have received that confirmation. But in that confirmation I was also instructed that the translations are not perfect so it is important to seek confirmations on the things learned. That instruction also supports what I was told from the translators. They have done their best, but at their best they are only confident that they are 60-65% accurate in their translations. I do not believe what they meant by that statement was they fabricated 35-40% Anyone who has translated from one language to another knows the impossibility of an exact translation. There are understandings and meanings that simply do not translate from one language to another. All one can do is their best. I personally believe that is what that 35-40% is. They have done their best, but it is not perfect.
I will say the writing of these records was not motivated by money. None of the translators ever have and never will receive any money for the work they have done. As publisher, I have been the only one who has handled any kind of money from the sales of the Archives or donations to the foundation established to help get the Archives out. The translators have received nothing. Very few people buy books and the purchase of the books have only made it possible to pay some publishing expenses and to print more books. Most people download the Archives free off the internet. And it is extremely rare that anyone donates money to help us. In fact, it has been over a year since someone donated by clicking the donation button on the website. It has been extremely tough on our end to make these available so you all can have them. Personally I have had a belly full of people’s criticism of those of us who are doing our best to get these records out. The criticism is unfounded and uncalled-for. And as far as the idea the translators trying to deceive others, I want you to know that I have been present on different occasions when Cloudpiler (one of the translators and an eyewitness of the physical ancient Nemenhah library) has told people flat out not to read the records. His attitude has constantly been the same as he wrote in the Forward of the Archives. I strongly recommend people read that Foreward. No effort has been made to try to deceive. I know there has been wonderful experiences connected to the bringing forth of these records. Notwithstanding, Cloudpiler has continually requested that I don’t speak of them in writing things like this. He doesn’t want sensationalism (which would easily be some people’s conclusion from those stories) to be the motivation of people reading these records. I think his attitude is appropriate. Nothing should get in the way of a person’s personal relationship with God and God’s ability to confirm the truth through the Holy Ghost. We have clearly stated what these records are. It is enough information for a person to make the decision if they wish to pursue reading them or not.
I think if one would take the time they would find that Christopher and Cloudpiler (as well as the other translators and people involved in bringing forth these family records) are as different as night and day. Those of us involved in bringing forth the Mentinah Archives are not looking for grandeur. I am about the only one who says anything about the Archives and I do simply because I have the responsibility of releasing these and I want people to know they exist. It is heartbreaking to me that so few know about these. I live in an LDS community and it is mindboggling to me that these records are not well known. You would think the knowledge of these would spread like wildfire; that I wouldn’t have to say a word to anyone, that the excitement that these are being released would find no bounds. But the culture is such that the people are scared to death to even look at the records or they automatically put them on their suspect list. As a whole, those who are courageous enough to do what it takes and find out these are authentic most won’t tell others, or they are very careful who they tell, for fear they would be accused of going wayward. It astonishes me the incredible fear in that culture when there is no need to be afraid of anything. The Holy Ghost is up to the challenge. Many of them are not willing to make a move unless one of their Church leaders says these records are authentic. Since when do their church leaders do that? Of the countless records that have already come forth, how many of those records have they made such statements? The odds are very small that they will make a statement of any records that did not come from them and as far as I know they have not released any translated records since the Pearl of Great Price. You would think the LDS people would be very excited that another group is finely releasing their records which support their abridge record from the Land Southward (the Book of Mormon). You would think they would be excited that they are not the only ones who believe their record is authentic. But instead, the greatest persecutions that have come against those of us bringing forth these records have come from the LDS people. I guess it is a threat to them that the Lord is working with other people. I don’t know why they would consider us a threat, for they know the Lord works with all nations and people. Why wouldn’t the Lord have us release our own records? Is what the Lord doing any different than what He has done through ages of time? The Lord respects stewardships. They have the Book of Mormon because the Lord required the record keepers (the stewards) to abridge the Nephite records and He sent Moroni, the last record keeper of the Nephites, to work with Joseph in the bringing forth of those records. What the Lord is doing with us is not strange to the LDS. Yet, in spite of their knowledge they have popularized cultural beliefs that God would only do such things with their own people, their own leaders, when they know from their own records that belief is not true. To me, the LDS culture makes no sense. When they attack us, I have to wonder if they even know what they purport they believe. How is the bringing forth of the Mentinah Archives any different than the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon? The parallelism is astonishing. Again, that should be something they should be very excited about. Here is another people verifying the same thing that happened to them as has happened in the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon. But instead, many LDS take these records as a threat to them. They believe everything about God revolves around them and their Church. It is as if they are saying, “How dare God have anything to do with another people!” They should know God deals with all people. These Archives are not a threat to the commencement of the restoration. Those of us involved in bringing forth these records are not seeking converts to lead people away from Mormonism. The Nemenhah Band, who holds the copyright of these records, is a Native American band whose religious beliefs is based on healing. If a person is a healer, we may encourage them to join the band, but if not we have no interest. Why would we? But to most LDS, without even knowing us, we are viewed as some kind of threat. What real harm is it for you all to know what is in our records? So what that on rare occasions you will come across a belief that is different than your culture assumed or believes. The Holy Ghost is very capable of letting you know which belief is correct. We are not requiring anyone to change their beliefs to be the same as ours. We are not requiring anyone to accept our records to be their scriptures. But for goodness sake, you have the Book of Mormon, aren’t you at least a little curious of having the rest of the story of many of the things you have and a whole lot more which you don’t have? I mean, you praise Samuel the Lamanite as a great prophet. Aren’t you at least a little curious of where he came from, who his ancestors are, what he did in his life, who he married and his descendants? You praise the Ammonites and point out how righteous they were. Aren’t you at least a little bit curious how they worshiped, there ceremonies, etc.? Many know the descendants of Hagoth landed in the Pacific Islands, are you at least a little curious how that happened when Hagoth himself went to the Land Northward? Those in the Land Northward also knew the Three Nephites. Why wouldn’t you be interested in knowing that the Three taught in the Land Northward? We have such information in our records and a whole lot more. I love these records and I love the Book of Mormon, so I can’t keep my mouth shut. I feel compelled to tell anyone who is willing to listen that these exist. But as far as everyone else involved in bringing forth these records, most just quietly do the work the Lord has asked them to do. I think one of the most interesting thing about the bringing forth of these records is that even though the Nemenhah Band holds the copyright, the majority of the people who are involved in bringing these forth do not belong to that band. Almost all, if not all, are direct descendants of Hagoth or have been adopted into the family line. We have a work we have been asked to do and we are doing it. The Lord said He would bring forth the records and these are some of the many He promised. This is our testimony. Again, the Holy Ghost is very capable of bearing witness if what we are saying is true. If what we are saying is true, then you have every reason to rejoice because the Lord is finely giving you the information He promised He would give you through the records He would bring forth. But so far, what I have seen as a whole among the LDS is an attitude that since the Lord isn’t bringing forth these records the way they culturally decided He should, then they are not interested. The attitude amazes me, but what can I do about it? If they don’t believe, they don’t believe. There is nothing I can do or say to change that. Any attempt only makes them more convinced. They are not going to do what it takes to get a proper confirmation when they are already convinced. That would be a waste of time and energy. But amazingly, most of them are considered the experts on the subject. What a strange society we live in when we value the words of those who don’t know anything over those who are witnesses?
Take all things to the Lord. Find out from Him what His will is, what is right and what is not. We are not trying to shove these records down people’s throats. These are our sacred family records, which we have been asked by the Lord to release and so we are. You have them available to you. What you choose to do with them is between you and Him.
Sincerely
Ea-lea Powitz Peopeo
Ea-lea Powitz Peopeo
September 2, 2009 at 11:14 am
The fullness of the Gospel in the Mentinah Archives are not consistant with the fullness of the gospel restored by Joseph Smith and lived by Father Abraham and the great patriarchs.
The fullness of the Gospel in the Mentinah Archives are consistant with modern mormon missionary textbook answers.
Fun story to read! Good dramatization!
I’ll give the authors that, but I won’t join their supposed indian tribe for $250
Fundamental Mormon
September 2, 2009 at 7:46 pm
praise the lord for these records, its all happening as it is written in all the above mentioned scriptures, we all have our faults , nothing wrong with righting the wrongs,good and bad in every culture in the this world, which side are you on is the main question the scriptures ask us , whos side are you on ,we have the test,we are at the footstool, choose wisely …weve been informed , the rest is up to us, time will tell ,
tapusheriff
September 3, 2009 at 9:31 am
Dude, these records are not translated or inspired. Either God doesn’t understand the complete gospel, or Cloudpilar doesn’t. I am going to assume id Cloudpilar that doesn’t. He thinks he is the Prophet in the last days that is part Indian and part Gentile. Funny. Maybe it would be believeable if the record was brought forth before his book was written. I could write a book that has Jesus come and say that I am the next great prophet. That would, however, not make the book true, and it would not make me a prophet. This story is too detailed to be a translated piece. It is just a story telling us the views of Cloudpilar.
Chief Poopsabunch
September 3, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Besides, Cloudpilar is not a Native American. I call myself Chief Poopsabunch, but that does not make me of Native American blood. He is convicted in Montana and Idaho for fraudulant activities. (taking people’s money based on a lie). Gee, isn’t that interesting. He is now a prophet of God and he wants you to give him money. I am stupid, but I am not that stupid. Even I can smell a pile of dung when I walk past one.
Chief Poopsabunch
September 3, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I have read the Mentinah Archives myself and I am LDS. I have found nothing in the Archives that goes against the teachings of the LDS Church. There are some things especially the deeper concepts taught that I don’t fully understand but that does not mean they are not true. I have been familiar with this library for about 3 years and I can honestly tell you that my faith has grown since reading them and that they are an authentic record of an ancient people. When I started investigating the Book of Mormon geography based on migrations they were very close to what is taught in the Archives. And I did this long before I even knew about them. Because of this I took a closer look at them. A lot of questions on Native American traditions are answered. The Book of Mormon is only a condensed version of the plates that Mormon had. I wanted to fill in the gaps. So, I started investigating non-Mormon writings on Native American traditions, archaeology and history from 1900 and back. What I found is consistent with my theory that the Nephites gradually migrated north over 1000 years.
Just to clarify something. Cloudpiler is not a prophet and he does not force anyone to believe in what he teaches. I do not belong the Nemenhah band and yet I still believe in these Archives. Is he doing anything different than what tele-evangelists, preachers, etc. do in asking for money to belong to their church? The Mormons pay a tithing to support the Church. If you don’t pay you may not go to the temple or do other Church related activities. Or pay dues to a health club or any other organization to be a member? He never declared himself a prophet and these Archives is a very small part of what he is doing. Should I name a few historical Christian preachers that went against the established Church of the land and paid the price with their lives? I view the treatment of these records the same way Christians treat the Mormons. The Christians won’t believe in the Book of Mormon because they believe it is not consistent with the Bible and history, even without reading it first. Now the Mormons are acting like the Christians and condemning the Archives without reading them first. Why is it that people who seem to know everything about God are the first to condemn new knowledge when it is presented? It seems to me that they are putting limits on what God can do and is willing to teach His children. There is so much knowledge from the begining of time that we cannot possibly learn it all in a short period of time. Who are we that can say what someone is learning is true or not? No one is an absolute authority when it comes to God, spirituality and mankind’s history. God gave us the Holy Spirit and a curious mind to seek out the truth no matter where it comes from.
uft36
September 3, 2009 at 5:37 pm
UFT36 – I do not believe you are a strong LDS member. The Archives teach over and over and over and over again that the Gentile church in the last days goes astray. In one part, a mentinah prophet is looking forward using seer stones and seeing the gentile prophet (Joseph Smith) and finds fault with him for not going west with the saints. He says that he understands why the gentile church is goes astray because their prophet himself isn’t willing to follow God’s commandment himself and gives in to his own pressure. (Emma, his wife complaining about him running of to the West). Joseph turned around and said, “I go as a lamb to the slaughter. If my family cares nothing about we that what is my life worth.”
To believe in the mentinah archives, one must believe the church has gone astray from the Gospel. I, personally believe the church did leave the fullness of the Gospel. What the church teaches today has been altered from what Smith, Young, and Taylor taught and lived. The Mentinah Archives is a story based of fact and fiction. A good story at that. But, Jesus never told anyone that Jacob of Old (abraham, isaac, jacob) was only sealed to Rachel and not Leah for time and all eternity. Jesus never told anyone that Jacob only married Leah due to customs at the time. Read the Doctrine and Covenants. Jacob only did that what God commanded him to, therefore, he sits on his throne as a God in heaven.
You are just simply promoting the book. No good standing mormon would believe the church has gone astray. No good standing mormon would believe in the Mentinah Archives.
Fundamental Mormon
September 3, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Besides, almost everyone does donate money to their religion. But the pastor believes he is a pastor. The president of the church believes he is the president of the church. The Pope believes he is a Pope. Cloudpilar knows that there are no such thing as the Mentinah Archives. He claims he is translating them. That is dishonest.
There is nothing new in the archives that I haven’t heard before. It is not that I cannot accept new doctrine or teachings. But the Laws of the Priestood never change. They were established before the world ever was and there is nothing you or I can do about changing them. The ideas and teachings in the Mentinah Archives teach different that the Doctrine and Covenants. God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost areen’t going to change their doctrine. Read your D&C 132. The Mentinah Archives shows what Clouplilar understands about the Gospel. It also shows what he doesn’t understand.
Besides. The nephites didn’t live in Mezo-America. They lived in North America. Zarahemla was is the Ohio Valley west of the Missippi. The Land of Desolation was the New York area. If you don’t believe me, then you don’t believe your prophet Joseph Smith.
Fundamental Mormon
September 3, 2009 at 7:15 pm
I may not be a good standing Mormon but I do believe in the Priesthood and what the Church teaches. I don’t claim to understand everything in the Archives or when the prophesies will take place, if they do. I remember reading somewhere that even the very elect will be deceived and the Church will go through a trial by fire. I also remember reading somewhere that some members of a tribe of Native Americans, I think Nez Perce, attempted to give the Church at Nauvoo some records on plates. They waited for the missionaries to meet them but they took too long and they left. If you want the reference I can look for them. When will these records be translated and will anyone accept them? Maybe these are the same ones as the Archive records. As far as Joseph Smith is concerned the only thing I did was to connect the dots. He mentioned in the Times and Seasons about the discoveries in Central America. I also found a non-Mormon reference to a tribe’s tradition that their ancestors landed near the Isthmus of Darien (Panama). Joseph Smith also mentioned Nephites in the US. In the book a History of New York written in 1854 and by a non-Mormon writer about how the early settlers found huge mounds of dirt with bones and weapons in the them. It looked like a great war took place there a long time ago. Besides, if you look at the years when Lehi landed in the New World and about when the last Jaredite king was discovered they overlap. Why would God land Lehi right in the middle of a bloodthirsty war if Lehi landed in the US? There was nothing left even to build a village according to Ether. A Land of Desolation. A war coast to coast. And I believe even down to Central America.
I have a theory that I believe works and the Archives confirmed some of it. I don’t know how to confirm the spiritual parts of the Archives without the Holy Spirit but it will take time and a lot of study and if I find some references outside of the Archives that either confirms or denied what is taught I will save it for future study. The Gospel is true as taught by Joseph Smith and others but we don’t have the full knowledge of the Gospel as was taught to Joseph Smith and other prophets. Joseph Smith and the other prophets were commanded not to write down everything or teach everything that they were taught until the time was right. So, we only have a small portion with much more to go. If for whatever reason I learn that everything about these Archives and Cloudpiler is wrong it will not change my beliefs in God, Christ, the Book of Mormon and everything else in the Church. These people of the Archives have been saying over and over again that these are family records not scriptures and to pray and to seek the Holy Spirit when reading these Books. Exactly the same as the Book of Mormon. If you chose not to believe it is your choice. I will take what I can learn from them and leave the rest.
uft36
September 3, 2009 at 8:53 pm
I agree with you. The Archives do encourage people to do good. A lot of books do. The Work and the Glory encourages you to do good. I can read that book with the Holy Ghost and have an understanding of the thruths within the book that promote goodness.
The prophet Joseph did restore the fullness of the Gospel, and it is no secret. All these “secrets” that people don’t know or live are written in plain english in the doctrine and covenants.
Example: Mentinah (revelation of cloudpilar volume 2) and Church teach consecration as giving you surplus to the poor. Which is true and good. But the doctrine and covenants teaches consecration as a complete banking system. I turn my money (surplus) into the bank. Joe Shmo draws it out to purchase him a house. The tithe or 10% is a nominal fee paid annually on each persons intrest held within the bank.
Example: Mentinah teach plural marriage is only commanded for the sake of building a nation quickly. The church teaches it is not required for exaltation and they are unclear exactly on the subject.
Smith, Young, and Taylor all taught is was required for exaltation. That evey blessing received is predicated on the law that it abides, and obedience to that law is how you receive the blessing. How do you receive the blessing that comes from plural marriage unless you live it? It is taught in D&C 132. It is in plain english. The Journal of Discourses is a good place to learn and understand the thoughts of Young and Taylor and the ideas the church had at that time. Which are different than today.
We know the priesthood doesn’t change (Revelation of John Taylor 1886 and God says it many time in the doctrine and covenants) so if there is change, it is the people themselves. I don’t care either way. Jesus fought for our free agency and everyone should have it and use it.
I just don’t get what this great mystery is about the Gospel that we don’t know. Why would something think they were going to the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, and admit they don’t know the laws of the priesthood. That level of success is enjoyed by people who understand and live and overcome all things.
I enjoy reading the Mentinah Archives. They make me feel good. But that doesn’t make them a work of translation.
Just my thoughts
Fundamental Mormon
September 4, 2009 at 6:41 am
Here it gos ,
Positive reinforcement,
Those of you who are not decendents of the people mentioned in the book of mormon or mentinah archives need not to worry , im not here to convince the gentiles or babylonians or any race in this world to believe or study , even respect these writings , you are my neighbour and i love you , i respect your opinons , we all have a mind , in which we express our deep feelings towards one subject or another,as long as you are living your life the best way you possibly can to be happy in this life to benifit you and your familys is a beutiful thing and may peace and love be in your life,
I know people can get upset about things written here and have a multitude of reasons to be , thats your right to life , and you are free to do so , imposing belief on to you is the last thing anyone has the right to do , i applaud peoples opinion and know they hold it dear in their hearts ,much love.
I personally will do all i can to practice my right to observe and study all scriptures in which i as an individual feel will better my life ,
I see the happenings in the world , and understand that i as an individual must use all my blessings to help make the world a better place ,
I am who my maker made me , I will do as my maker told me , and that is solid as a rock, i will search deep , pray hard ,fast joyfully,study often ,and follow the laws of the gospel to the enth degree , And be all i can be , Only the lord knows where this will take me , My faith will spill out onto the world , maybey even yours ,
but not by my force , But i just want you to know ,
I have started
I have belief , I have wisdom , i have love, I have hope , as everyone should strive to,by gospel law,they should strive for these things , Your opinion is your opinion , Mine is mine ,
Israel and Judah , will stand up, But where is Judah ?
Did not the babylonians capture and destroy Zedekiah ,
Or was that family saved , Did Hagoth escape the americas to the west sea(pacific) ,or did he not ,
Where is israel ,are the Nephites Destroyed or did hagoth escape , Who will challenge Hagoths Descendents and say the book of mormon was incorrect ?
Do we honestly think Hagoth died in open sea or is there a possibility God saved them , Could god have the power to save them , Does god save his people,
My beliefs are my beliefs , Im diving head first with no questions into what i believe the lord has revealed , Here i come world , Words from others are exactly what they believe ,
But like my words are to you,
Your words are to me ,
and just like i cant stop you ,
You cant stop me from loving this footstool,or my ambitions to set the captives free ..
amen .
tapusheriff
September 25, 2009 at 9:00 pm