Welcome!

Thank you for visiting. On this blog I hope to present a strong case to show how Mormon’s Nephite record ended up in western New York. I will present my findings and insights and I will leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions. I will not compare or bash other theories concerning Book of Mormon geography with my theory. Too many sites I have come across have done this already. Everything on this site is my own conclusions and I will cite references everywhere I can. This is a somewhat complex topic to write about so I hope I can be as organized as I can. I am not a professional writer but I will do my best.

Since the day the first Europeans set foot upon this continent, everyone has been wondering who the Native Americans are and where they came from. When the new Americans started exploring and settling in the more remote areas of North, Central, and South America, they discovered strange buildings and artifacts left behind from what seemed to be a great civilization that existed centuries ago. These discoveries ranged from hundreds of mounds in northeast United States to huge temple complexes found in Central and South America. They asked the local tribes that were living in the area who made these things, and all they would say that they were made by their ancient ancestors. Many people speculated on this subject until 1830 when the Book of Mormon was first published. To some people this book seemed to answer a few questions on the history of the Native Americans in this new world they settled in. And yet the question still remained amongst the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: where exactly did the Book of Mormon events take place?

Migrations in the Book of Mormon

In my first post I said that I found a possible pattern in the Book of Mormon concerning migrations (go to the introduction page). When I first started researching the different theories about where the Nephite lands are I was getting very frustrated at all the different opinions and theories people had on this subject. I had too many questions that was not being answered satisfactorily. So, I decided to get a fresh look on where these lands could possibly be located. I started by looking for possible patterns by doing a keyword search on certain words like migrations, Zarahemla, Nephites, Lamanites, etc. I then looked closer at the migrations and noticed that this was mentioned only six times in the Book of Mormon and every one went north. When I mean migrations I mean a group of people moving to new lands and establishing permanent villages and towns there. If you look in the scriptures you will also notice that only one reference was made every 3 books of people moving to new lands with two mentioned in Alma 63. Now, I need to know where Lehi landed as a place where these migrations started. I remembered a reference where Joseph Smith said in a Times and Seasons article that Lehi landed just south of the Isthmus of Darien or Panama. So, I started here and worked up. Now I needed more reference points to place my information on. There is a lot of research that says that Zarahemla was in the Yucatan/Guatemala region and that the Nephites final war was in upstate New York. These last two wre enough to establish a possible route of the migrations. I made the chart below and placed each Book of Mormon section that corresponds to the above references on a New World map and everything lined up with the appropriate countries that they lived in. For example, most of the Nephite history in Zarahemla is in Mosiah and Alma, the largest book in the Book of Mormon and both books is in the middle of the Book of Mormon. And guess where Zarahemla is now generally accepted? In the Yucatan, southern Mexico and Guatemala area; right in the middle of both continents. This is the perfect location to establish the Church of Jesus Christ in this part of the world. The prophet could send missionaries in both directions, north and south, to spread the word of God throughout the New World. This could not happen until the lands in the north was prepared for the coming of the Nephite nation. There was still a war going on with the Jaredites when Lehi landed and the land need to be purged of the last corrupted nation. Also, the Church of Jesus Christ had to be strong enough and established before the Nephites could move into the new lands or else it would not survived very long. I will talk more on this later on. In short, I believe, because Mormon had so little room to put much detail on where the Nephite lands are more specifically he designed the Book of Mormon as a geographical map, placing certain information in specific places, leaving up to a future individual to figure out the clues and build the map. I am not saying this is me but I wonder if anyone else since the Book of Mormon was published has noticed this pattern. This theory would answer a lot of questions and resolve a lot of seemingly conflicting information that was written by early LDS writers. I will post more of my thoughts and research in the coming weeks.

To start off with I will show you my map that I created then explain the different areas. Essentially, my theory is a combination of all the prevailing theories with some details not included that I have found. Here is the map:

over all view of the Book of Mormon lands

This only shows the migration routes of the prophets Lehi, Nephi, and Mosiah and Nephites. Mulek’s arrival I will show on another photo.

I know this map is hard to read but it is the only I could find with latitude and longitude of this area. The Hebrew pairs are part of my own system that I developed based on the Star of David. The numbers underneath each pair matches that of each point that a prophet entered the land. Lehi’s numbers are 3 and 90 which are Gimal and Tsadhe..righteous man on a hill. These are the coordinates of the Galapagos Islands and the “doorway” (the Hebrew letter Dahleth or door) between the Pacific currents to Ecuador. I will do a more detailed explanation on a separate page. Thanks for visiting.

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Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

34 thoughts on “Welcome!

  1. Doyle

    I read some of your posts vs. the other christian guy. I have been a member since I was a child and profoundly believe in the book of mormon. I have read it several times and have a testimony that it is true. I have also realized that when I read the bofm daily and try to live the principles, my life is better and I am closer to God, but when I neglect the bofm, I am angrier, my language changes, my thoughts change, everything that I am seems to default to nothing. My whole deamener changes.

    I think the Lord wants people to have faith in the Book of Mormon, otherwise he would have provided all the “historical evidences”, then everyone would believe, but just like the second coming of christ, the subtle signs are there, mostly just ignored by most people.

    The way everyone attacks the church and the book of mormon, it seems like satan and his legions are attacking this religion. It has to be true, you don’t see the kind of vile and angry comments against any other church.

    Everyone assumes because they can’t find any archelogical evidences of the book of mormon that it is false. I think alot of your arguments are in the right. Time does not preserve everything. I am very into researching my family history, and I can barely find much evidence that my family existed. Does that mean that they did not exist. I am proof that they did. My great grandfather, Hugh James McIntosh lived in a town called Berlin. This town was located near Skykomish, King Co., Washington. It burned down in 1906. I’ve been there 2-3 times, and you can absolutley, find no evidence that it existed. I found part of a foundation, and that’s it. Does that mean it didn’t exist!

    Keep working on your blog. We need more faith in the world.

    I have a testimony that Jesus is the Christ of the bible and of the book of mormon. I know that the book of mormon is the word of God as it has profoundly changed my life.

    Reply
  2. John

    There is archelogical evidence for all of the other history of the canoncalized Bible, from the New Testament to the Old. God does not require us to accept anythign by blind faith. God did not harden the pharoe’s heart in Egypt for no reason at all, but to prove to the world that He was the true God and creator! The many miracles and signs that were witnessed by thousands, prove and proclaim that God is Lord. Anything you read and believe with profoundly change your life, but it doesn’t make it the truth. There is only one truth, and that is, God is Lord of all He sent His son to die for our sins, and only by believing in Him and no other thing can we be saved.
    God bless you!

    Reply
  3. uft36 Post author

    By the way, John, there is ample evidence for the Book of Mormon, only if you can accept it as evidence. Hundreds of people have seen and witnessed many miracles and signs of Christ and yet they still crucified Him. Only the Holy Spirit can witness to you who Christ is and His plan for you in your life. I have read and witnessed some things that I can’t explain other than it was by divine intervention that caused it. How can a farm boy with a third grade education can come up with a fantastic story as the Book of Mormon even with resources available in his area? It has been shown that the names of the Book of Mormon are Hebraic in origin and are found only in ancient texts that were not available in the early 1800’s in upstate New York. There are information in the Book of Mormon that have been discovered many years after it was published. How could he have described Qatar, south of Saudi Arabia, with accuracy without any maps available? It has been shown that this is Bountiful in 1 Nephi. I could go on but I will leave you with this. Try reading the Book of Mormon and decide for yourself whether it is true or not. Don’t judge the Church by its members. Study the basic doctrines and see if it is true or not. You will probably find that they are found in the Bible. I could tear apart Christianity and every other church based on the actions of the members and its history. But I chose to study by the Holy Spirit the doctrines and beliefs of the different faiths and figure out for myself what is right or wrong.

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  4. John

    I have read all of the LDS doctrine. In fact, I at one time was very open to the possibility that it was correct. That is why I read it, upon reading it and comparing it with what the Bible says, it is very clear that one of the two is in error. Romans very clearly teaches that we are saved by grace alone, and not works. The Bible says there is only one God and no others. The LDS doctrine says we all can become God and that God was once a man like us.

    “When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”(Deu 18:22)

    Prophecy #1 – Temple to be built in Independence, Missouri. In September of 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the New Jerusalem and a new temple would be built in Zion, Missouri, a site near Independence. He further stated that his generation would not all pass away until these events took place. The temple was never built in Smith’s lifetime or within the generation of his contemporaries. The Mormons were driven out of Missouri in 1839. The site where the temple was to be built is not even owned today by the Mormon Church.

    Prophecy #2 – The End of all nations. In December 1832 Smith prophesied that South Carolina would rebel against the federal government, resulting in a war that would spread worldwide and would result in the “full end of all nations.” Nothing needs to be said about the failure of this bizarre prophecy.

    Prophecy #3 – The Return of the Lord. In 1835, as the prophecies of William Miller were growing in popularity, Joseph Smith stated that “the return of the Lord is nigh – even fifty-six years should wind up the scene.” The 56 years passed in 1891. In a diary entry dated April 6, 1843, Smith repeated this prophecy, stating the Lord would return when “I am 85 years old, 48 years hence, or about 1890.” Smith was killed when he was 39 years old.

    Prophecy #4 – The Liberty jail prophecies. In March of 1839 Smith issued a whole package of prophecies from his jail cell in Liberty, Missouri. Among other things, he predicted that his enemies would be destroyed “by the sword,” that his friends would never charge him with transgressions, and that God was about to change the times and seasons. None of these prophecies came true. The enemies of the Mormons were not destroyed, God did not change the times and seasons, and Smith’s friends did turn on him with serious charges that ultimately led to his arrest and death.

    Prophecy #5 – The United States Government to be overthrown. In May of 1843 Smith prophesied that if the United States government did not redress the wrongs suffered by the Mormons in Missouri, the government would be “utterly overthrown and wasted.” The federal government rejected the Mormon petitions and their “wrongs” were not redressed, yet the U.S. government continued to exist.

    Prophecy #6 – His son to succeed him. In April 1844 Smith prophesied that his son would succeed him and would become “president and king of Israel.” The child was named David. Needless to say, he never became “president and king of Israel.” Nor did he succeed his father. He died in 1904 at the age of 60, after spending the last 27 years of his life in an insane asylum.

    The Bible says if one prophecy is wrong, then the person is not a prophet of God.

    In Christ’s Love,

    John

    Reply
    1. Thomas

      John, I do not agree with your assessment.

      Prophecy #1 Generation
      The 1828 Websters Dictionary gives us the meaning for the word “generation” as used at the time of Joseph Smith. The definition is not limited to a group of people living at one time, but includes “A single succession in natural descent, as the children of the same parents; hence, an age” and also “Genealogy; a series of children or descendants from the same stock”. The Bible uses similar language, such as in describing the Creation (Gen. 2:4); see Easton’s Bible Dictionary under “generation”. The Latter-day Saints of today are clearly part of Joseph Smith’s generation and believe these prophecies fully pertain to us.

      Prophecy #2 The Civil War and Military Weaponry
      The Civil War definitely began in South Carolina and war since that time has greatly escalated, at times in geographic extent (such as during the World Wars) and definitely in destructiveness (with the advent of airplanes, missiles, bombs and now nuclear weaponry). The Civil War is specifically seen as the beginning of the escalation of weaponry and we all know that greater wars are yet to come.

      Prophecy #3 Opening of the Seventh Seal
      The day of our Lord’s return is unknown because it is dependent on faith. The great faith of Joseph Smith is obviously manifest in the incredible works he performed and his vast influence on others. The prophecy reads that “if” Joseph lived “until thou art eighty-five years old” he would “see the face of the Son of Man”. He did not live to age 85 and thus saw the Lord sooner, in his martyrdom. Had he lived, his influence surely would have had such an effect as to induce the faith necessary. Even in his death his name continues to evoke enormous faith, both for and against his teachings as you evidence in your post.

      As to the date of the opening of the seventh seal, spoken of by John the Revelator, we know not exactly when this date is or was for being in the midst of the trees we fail to see the forest. Let us be patient and see how these events unfold before our eyes.

      Prophecy #4 Destruction of Western Missouri and Changing the Times and Seasons
      The destruction of west-central Missouri and specifically the area around Liberty Jail during the Civil War is clearly established in history. Please reread your history for the clear fulfillment of this prophecy.

      Similarly, the date for the ending of the Little Ice Age and the beginning of the current climateological season is specifically set at 1850. The modern “Global Warming” or “Global Climate Change” is becoming quite extreme and all major publications specifically point to the year 1850 for the beginning of this change. Joseph Smith’s time in Liberty Jail was approximately 10 years prior to this change and fully in the period predating this change, showing that he could not have known except by prophecy and showing that it was indeed “soon” after his prophetic utterance.

      Prophecy #5 Civil War
      It has now been almost two hundred years since the days of the Civil War and it remains the single largest threat to our country in its history. The nation known to Joseph Smith and those of that time was completely torn asunder with brother fighting against brother and state against state. Washington DC was not the symbol of our nation at that time, as it is today. Rather, the original colonies and even Virginia in particular that were the symbol of our nation. The division of our country and the great destructions in that war cannot be overlooked in reference to that prophecy. To the eyes of any historian who has studied that war, the nation was surely utterly wasted. What horrible times.

      Prophecy #6 Joseph Smith’s Posterity
      I am not familiar with this prophecy regarding Joseph Smith’s son. As a people who believe in the afterlife and specifically the Spirit World, the Latter-Day Saints have a unique view on prophecy. In Joseph Smith’s time there were people who were told in their patriarchal blessings that they would preach to people on the moon. To the unbeliever, these are words of foolishness, like Paul stated (1 Corinthians 1:18). To me, they are part of the great work of salvation prepared by our Lord. I believe that those people, if faithful in the Spirit World, would have been instrumental in developing spiritually the technologies later used to travel to the moon, for I believe that such technologies come through the veil from righteous generations of the dead who continue to work for Christ and who continue to preach the gospel to the dead, as mentioned by Paul and also Peter and in latter-day scripture. I imagine that one of Joseph Smith’s sons likely also played a significant role in the Spirit World, coming from such a righteous father. That his earthly life was a struggle is not surprising given the horrid abuses heaped upon Joseph Smith’s seed. Such was the fate of many believers throughout time as clearly attested in the Bible and by Christ himself.

      Let us wait until all the evidence is in before we seek to speak ill of persons who clearly taught of Christ, preached of Christ, prophesied of Christ and sought to bring souls unto Christ. No unbeliever can deny that Joseph Smith sought to preach repentance and to preach Christ crucified, nor can they deny the witness of Christ found in every page of the Book of Mormon.

      If atheists seek to say the Book of Mormon is false, as they say of the Bible, then let them rant. But for believers, one only need randomly open the book to any page and read it and they will see that this book of all books testifies of Christ and preaches repentance.

      I love God, I love the Bible, and I love the Book of Mormon. I glory in the gift of his Son. Beware what judgement you judge, for so shall you be measured. I do not say you must make of yourself a Mormon, but there is so much good in Mormonism that seeking to knock it down can only hurt the world and the testimony of Jesus we jointly seek to uphold.

      Reply
  5. John

    Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
    Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
    Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

    🙂

    Reply
  6. uft36 Post author

    Once again, this blog is not for a doctrinal debate. If you have read my posts and comments from another commenter you will see that I stand firm in my beliefs. If you want to comment on history or on what I have posted go ahead. I have studied and read doctrines from Christianity and LDS Church and as far as I am concerned, there is a lot more we can learn than what is taught in the Bible. There are doctrines taught by the LDS Church that were once taught by Christian preachers. So, I can say that Christianity is false based on what was once taught in the ancient churches and should be now taught. Every one believes what they want. We have that right. So, don’t waste my space and time on this blog trying to convince me that I am wrong in my beliefs. You won’t win.

    Reply
  7. Alan

    It is wonderful to see how wrong the “Mentinah Archives” are because the writers tried to incorporate the FARMS geographical model which we now know were wrong.

    This is similar to the “Sealed Portion” which is also easy to discern being based on incorrect theories as well.

    Anyone can regurgitate data into a “narrative of a family history” which requires the Holy Ghost – NOT. If there was doctrine pertinent to salvation, then maybe the Holy Spirit would be required to discern, however, there is not a shred of NEW preaching on Christ, new doctrines on salvation, prophecies, insights, revelations or faith building stories. No gifts or fruit of the true Spirit are present and it is a waste of time to stroke the shallow egos of the arrogant and excessively bored perpetrators of this fraud.

    Reply
  8. uft36 Post author

    My theories are not based on FARMS and I have shown, at least in part, that there were people that migrated north into the southwest US. I don’t like FARMS too much. I think they are too arrogant and close-minded and won’t accept anything different than their theories. The top map is my original map and is based on my understanding of the Book of Mormon, Native American legends, and Joseph Smith. I have had similar ideas that are found in the Mentinah Archives on the migrations of the Nephites north long before I read the Archives. The Archives are not meant to introduce new doctrine nor are they considered scriptures. They are not heavily promoted nor sold for profit. And you need the Holy Spirit no matter what you read to help you determine what is true or not. Including the Book of Mormon and any other text. The LDS Church have always said to read the Book of Mormon by the Holy Spirit why not do the same with these books? Even Joseph Smith have said that the Apocrypha contains some truth and left it up to the individual to study them and learn from them. And yet they are not considered official scriptures by any Church that I know of. There will be more records for us in the future. Are we going to dismiss them all because they don’t come from the official LDS Church? If you found and translated a record that you discovered on your own and presented it to the world would you be label a fraud and a liar? Probably. No one will accept it because it is not from official channels even though you know the truth and the circumstances behind the discovery. I believe I have found the true history of how the Nephites came to the US but no one will accept it or at least go through my research and try to understand it. I am not a scholar or affiliated with any school or group so no one will take me serious. These archives filled in the blanks for me and I am still going through them and tie them in with archaeology and history.

    Reply
  9. Timeless

    It took 21 days for Alma and his group with women, children, and flocks to go from near the City of Nephi to Zarahemla. You can’t have a geographic scope of thousands of miles for those two cities.

    Reply
  10. Stanley

    I’m still trying to figure out how Lehi landed on the west coast of South America from Israel?….That’s some kinda voyage!!!!

    Reply
  11. uft36 Post author

    Timeless: With my geographic model you can. If you check out this site: http://www.bookofmormongeography.net/index.htm you will see that it is possible that a group could travel this far in 21 days. And if you are talking about Mosiah discovering the land of Zarahemla he and his family traveled into the land of Zarahemla not the city itself and he left the land of Nephi not the city of Nephi. Both lands could cover thousands of square miles. They were brought to the city by some local people. My model uses the migrations over the 1000 period of Nephite history to bring the Nephites to New York. I cannot believe that two groups of people living for about 500 years in a small area that everyone believes the Book of Mormon events took place would miss each other, with all the wars, drought, political unrest, etc. happening on both sides. In history, during every single war or when a tyrant rule over the land people or religious differences migrated to better lands and started their own colonies. Between Lehi and Mosiah was about 500 years. Am I to believe that absolutely no one in that time frame discovered the land of Zarahemla? The Nephites were pushed north by the Lamanites and if you read the Book of Mormon you will see that a migration happened just before the Church or the Nephites were about to be destroyed. Lehi, Mosiah, the migrations in Helaman just before Christ’s coming, Mormon’s march to New York, and the brother of Jared just before the languages were confounded. This is a pattern I discovered and I will stand by it.
    Stanley: Some people believe that Lehi went to the area of Qatar on the Arabian coast and traveled through the south Pacific to reach South America.

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  12. matilda

    This all facinating research. Thank you for making you findings public. Keep up the good work. I have a question. Doesn’t it state in the mentinah archives that the modern day church and it’s leaders have gone astray? And that in the days prior to the second coming 10% of the churches followers will not survive because they couldn’t follow the law of consecration even though it was a commandment? You seem to be an upstanding mormon so I was wondering what your thoughts on this are. I am leaning more towards the archives being true…but I’m a little undecided.

    Reply
  13. uft36 Post author

    Thanks for visiting, Matilda. I don’t think they have gone astray but if I remember right, it’s been a while, it also says that the Church has a different mission and that is to do missionary work for the living and the dead. That is, to introduce to the world the true Gospel of Jesus Christ using the Book of Mormon as a guide. It seems that the Ammonites of the archives, if you believe they are true, were given the higher laws of the Temple and were able to keep them as part of their lives. One day, when we are ready maybe we will be given the same opportunities as the Ammonites were given to practice the higher laws of God. But we must go through a trial period first to see who would be ready or not and maybe this is where the 10% figure comes from. I haven’t heard about this figure before but there will be a trial by fire for all Church members, including leaders, before the second coming. I still a little reserved about the archives being true myself, just being cautious about them, but the have a lot of information that answers some questions that comes from the Book of Mormon and they have a lot of great lessons in following the commandments of God. If these are true, these could become a valuable source of information on the early history of the people of North America and temple practices, etc. I have made some connections between the Archives and what I have found on American history that either someone was very good at research or they are actual records of a lost people. Thanks, again, for your comments.

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  14. Greg

    John – Regarding your comment above, namely,

    In September of 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the New Jerusalem and a new temple would be built in Zion, Missouri, a site near Independence. He further stated that his generation would not all pass away until these events took place. The temple was never built in Smith’s lifetime or within the generation of his contemporaries.

    I assume you are not familiar with Orson Pratt’s comments in 1873,

    When the Temple is built the sons of the two Priesthoods, that is, those who are ordained to the Priesthood of Melchizedek, that Priesthood which is after the order of the Son of God, with all its appendages; and those who have been ordained to the Priesthood of Aaron with all its appendages, the former called the sons of Moses, the latter the sons of Aaron, will enter into that Temple in this generation, or in the generation that was living in 1832, and all of them who are pure in heart will behold the face of the Lord and that too before he comes in his glory in the clouds of heaven, for he will suddenly come to his Temple, and he will purify the sons of Moses and of Aaron, until they shall be prepared to offer in that Temple an offering that shall be acceptable in the sight of the Lord. (See Redemption of Zion.)

    Those living in Joseph Smith’s day and magnified the priesthood will one day receive this marvelous blessing. It does not matter if they have died and gone into the spirit world where they have continued their labors in the priesthood.

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  15. Richard

    I remain convinced that the land southward was in South America, not mesoamerica. Priddis, Potter and others have slowly uncovered important evidence of this. The Joseph Smith revelation stating that Lehi landed at 30 degrees south latitude in today’s Chile was written down by one of Joseph’s counselors on the same page as a revelation today in the D&C.

    10 Reasons Why the Book of Mormon Took Place in Peru

    By George Potter

    Here is what my copy of the Book of Mormon states:

    1. The Book of Mormon was inscribed on metal plates.

    2. The Nephites mined gold and also worked copper and silver.

    3. The Nephites made swords of steel, a derivative of iron.

    4. The people of the Book of Mormon had herds of animals that could be described as sheep.

    5. They also had animals that were described as horses.

    6. The Nephites had a Semitic-like language.

    7. The Nephites had a written language that became lost (Jacob 4:1,2).

    8. The Nephites and Jaredites worshipped a white god who had the form of a man.

    9. The Nephites had costly apparel.

    10. The Jaredites built cities has early as the third millennium B.C.

    These ten characteristics of the Book of Mormon people are not fringe elements of their storyline. They all point to Peru.

    Reply
    1. JB

      You’ve done a lot of research so I congratulate your efforts however, in the beginning of your theory you state that Joseph Smith said in a Times and Seasons article that Lehi landed just south of the Isthmus of Darien or Panama.

      This is actually incorrect. I would ask you to review what Joseph Smith said/wrote in “The Wentworth Letter”.

      Previous to the Times and Seasons Article(s) that spoke of S. America as Book of Mormon lands, Joseph Smith posted an address that he would no longer be the Editor and articles that he wrote would bear his name/signiture.

      In the Wentworth Letter, which is mostly overlooked as a geography reference; he clearly states that he was shown a sketch of where the Laminites were and whence they came. During Zion’s Camp march he stated that they were walking across the plains of the Nephites, that once beloved people of the Lord. Therefore, if you believe that Joseph Smith received divine instruction then you should know that the promised land of the Nephites is USA and not South America. When Lehi Landed he said, we have obtained the promised Land.

      To start from a firm foundation you should begin with what has been revealed to the Prophet Josheph Smith and not unsigned article(s) that were written in the Times and Seasons by other church members that did not receive revelation but were acting out of their own hypothises.

      A good sight for further evidence from archeology found in the US that shows copper, brass, iron molds and furnances as well as some of the cities boundry walls and their embankments go to: http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/ Most recently I reviewed the Phonecian Voage which proved which route was possible and the probably length of time that the trip would take in a 600BC sailing ship.

      Reply
  16. uft36 Post author

    You may be correct about Joseph Smith and the Times And Seasons. I am not sure if you read all of my posts yet but this one may be of interest to you… https://platesofmormon.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/hebrew-colonies-in-the-new-world/ I know these are not inspired men of God but they recorded Native American traditions before they were either lost or corrupted.
    I never said that the Nephites could not be in North America. Maybe I missed something and when I have time I will go over your website again but how do you explain Lehi’s family landing in the middle or towards the end of the Jaredite war? If the Jaredite nation was as big as it was and was devastated as much as Ether was saying there won’t be much of anything left for Lehi’s family to rebuild. If you reread my articles then you would see that I believe that the Nephites eventually ended up in North America and not stayed in South America. Copper, brass and other evidences you stated came later in the Book of Mormon. Yes, Lehi reached the promised land but that does not necessarily mean North America. God also said that as long as his people kept their covenants with Him they will keep the land. Zarahemla was destroyed at the time of Christ and they lost the some of the land to the Lamanites, if I am reading it right. So, how can North America be Lehi’s promised land when it was eventually destroyed? I know about the Phoenician voyages and the routes they may have taken to North America. Some people believe that King Solomon’s mines were in North America. There are a lot of theories out there and researchers have spent a lot of time and money to prove they are correct. I could do the same thing with my theory but I believe it would be a waste of time if everyone is only going to prove that I am wrong and their theory is correct. I have spent a lot of time defending myself on this blog instead of answering questions. I don’t know if I am right or wrong but I believe there are other possibilities to be explored if we are to get a better picture of ancient American history.

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  17. uft36 Post author

    By the way, I just wanted to add that Mexico is part of the continent of North America so technically Joseph Smith was right. I also want to correct myself and make more clear the thought that it was Mexico or Zarahemla that was destroyed at the time of Christ and the Nephites re-established the Church of Jesus Christ in the Central US. To me the idea of the Nephite religion spreading out throughout the Americas is much like how the Christian Churches spread throughout the Mediterranean Sea and Europe. This makes more sense than a tiny colony blossoming into a huge civilization and takes into account of other people already living here for centuries.

    Reply
  18. Thom

    Read Joseph Allen’s book, “Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon” on regard to the location of the Book of Mormon cities and you will find that none of the lands are located outside of the central America area. Joseph Smith even stated that this is correct. The map above is false and very inaccurate.

    Reply
  19. uft36 Post author

    Yet another commenter stating that a certain theory is more correct than what I am proposing. Joseph Smith did not give us full details on where the lands are located so we are only left with our interpretation of where the lands are based on his and other’s statements. I started with the Book of Mormon, with no other theories or ideas, and built my theory on what I discovered. As I learned more about the history of the lands I modified my theory to reflect the native’s traditions and archaeological discoveries. I don’t know if I am right or wrong but at least I am not stuck on a single person’s theory and am willing to learn new ideas. The New World history is very old and complex and to say definitely that only the LDS theories is correct is very narrow minded. I am only presenting an alternative theory to what is being presented out there and hope to encourage new studies into these people’s past.

    Reply
  20. runtu

    I’m a little puzzled as to why an (apparently) believing Mormon would promote the Mentinah stuff, which is extremely dubious at best. I would hate to see people get sucked into a bogus Native American “band” because of your site.

    Reply
  21. uft36 Post author

    I have read the Mentinah Archives and I liked what I read. It does not affect my beliefs in the LDS Church and I have no interest in joining this band. I like to explore new ideas and concepts even if they sound really far fetched and stretches the imagination. I don’t have enough information to judge whether or not these are authentic. I am treating these records like the Book of Mormon. Yes, I can dissect these records down to nothing but I am more interested in the information they contain than on translation problems. I don’t have any problem with anyone who wants to learn Native American ways, even if it is this “bogus” band. I am not going to condemn anyone who decides to join this band based on a few reports on the internet and someone’s opinion that it is a fraud and a made up religion. I am only promoting the records for anyone who might be interested in learning about them and if they don’t like anything about them then they should delete them off their computer.

    Reply
  22. dallonj

    i’ll never understand why people are so certain that the nephites and lamanites couldn’t fill up both continents, even though both continents were completely filled when the first explorers from across the sea arrived and both are filled to the brim currently. there are groups spread throughout the whole of the new world that match certain aspects of the prophecies and descriptions of the descendants of lehi. nephi said he saw so many cities he couldn’t count them all, and his descendants filled the promised land and numbered more than the sand of the seashore. you’ll be pretty safe assuming anyone who was here before colonists arrived is entitled to the promises and blessings of the BOM. and give me a break, have you been to missouri? you think that place could be called a promised land compared to jungles in mesoamerica and southamerica? i guess if you really dig grass and hate fruit maybe.

    Reply
  23. Shannon

    I am a member and I do believe. There is evidence out there my friends, if we reason then we won’t believe in anything for both books are based on faith. The trip up is and always will be reason vs. faith. So many times I have let the world and reason fool me. God asks for faith and belief in our savior, The Book Of Mormon says to pray and you will get the answer. It is not over night, but I promise all of you he will answer. Do not let the fallen one decieve you through science and reason, blind faith? Not really the holy ghost will show you, that was all I needed. God bless you all in your life no matter what you believe but let us not hate one another when we warship the same Lord.

    Reply
  24. Heber Frank

    The most convincing evidence: Lehi and company left Jerusalem, traveled three days to the Valley of Lemuel (for sure: Wadi Tayyib al-Ism), then travelled south south-east over time to Nahom (Probably: Nhm), and then travelled east to Bountiful (Probably: Salalah); eventually built a ship in an area with a history of shipbuilding and a protected harbor (Probably Khor Rohi), sailed south at the right time of the year, and eventually was driven NATURALLY by the winds and the very strong Antarctic Circumpolar currents eastward until they came into the Peruvian current. At 30 degrees south latitude the currents almost stop and they landed at the excellent harbor of Coquimbo, with surrounding land with one of very few places on earth with the same climate as Jerusalem. The seeds they had taken grew abundantly. Eventually Nephi and others fled to the city of Nephi (probably Cuzco). The narrow neck of land was at the Bay of Guayaquil. This requires that before Christ the Amazon basin was underwater. It is certain the Amazon basin was once under water, but just how long ago? If one has faith in the Book of Mormon, why not put faith in the best evidence for where the Book took place, even if it also takes a little faith to do so? Are we trying to placate the world, or to just find the truth?

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  25. newby

    Hi uft36 –

    I’ve had the chance to read through and explore the first 6 volumes of the Mentinah Archives thanks to your posting them a while back. Do you have access to the later volumes (7-9) or have an idea of how to find them?

    Thanks for your help –

    Reply
      1. djxb

        Are there more volumes? I can’t seem to find any and I checked on that site you linked to…didn’t see any there either. They just look like excerpts from vol1-6? Thanks.

  26. newby

    djxb, I have the full Volumes 1-6 and the second half of 8. I have yet to find Vol 7 or the rest. It looks like zionspath is slowly working their way through, so it might be a while before they reach those latter volumes. You can email me at hiddentolight@gmail.com, and I’d be happy to share what I have.

    Reply
  27. jim

    Book of Mormon geography is a fascinating topic. There are so many clues with the record that appear to me to be over looked. I appreciate that you mention migrations. The issue is not that the seed of Joseph most likely migrated in both northern and southern directions. We can look at modern man and see that people move (migrate) for many reasons. Better weather, better farm land, avoid conflict of waring peoples, just having an adventuring spirit to name a few. Where those migrations eventually ended proves only that fact, people moved about over a period of 1000 years and so we would see archeological proofs that native American or native cultures in many other locations have traditions and oral histories that testify of origins that seem to be supportive of Hebrew descent. The real question is not where they ended but where they began. The two primary models are the Meso-American and the Heartland. I will refrain from voicing my opinion on these but I would like to offer some, what seem obvious markers as I read the record. Once the Lehi/Nephi colony left the old world there is never a cold word used in the record. Living in Jerusalem, Nephi certainly was acquainted with snow and used that word to describe the fruit on the tree in the dream both he and his father had dealing with the rod of iron. Never again do you find a cold word. Twice there is the mention of judgment from an east wind. We need to ask ourselves what are the weather patterns in various parts of the continents of proposed locations. We might also ask ourselves as we read from the beginning of the 27th year of the reign of judges through the 29th year. There is continues preparation for war, what implication does this have on weather conditions and location. The record says that the river Sidon flowed from east to west, there has to be a location that demonstrates a sea to the east and west as well as to the north and south. Just a few thoughts.

    Reply
    1. uft36 Post author

      Well, I kind of went through this on another website. Wars are only fought during the summer through the fall season when there are crops and easier to move troops around. There are snow in the mountains in Central America so the Nephites are familiar with cold on occassion. Winters are generally times of rest and story telling and survival in the northern countries with not much going on. Remember, the Book of Mormon is only a condensed version of the history of the Nephites. There is not much room for mundane topics as the weather except when it relates to a spiritual lesson. I posted a map of Zarahemla that I believe matches the river Sidon and other areas mentioned in Alma 32. It is in Central Mexico. There is a big difference between the descriptions of the Nephite lands before and after Christ visited the Americas. There is only one mention of the city of Zarahemla being rebuilt and that is it. My main issue with BOM geography is that everyone assumes the entire 1000 year history happened in one small area. What other country or history do you know of that its history is contained in such a small area with thousands of people fighting in wars, famine, city building, etc.for a thousand years? Countries will not survive very long with these conditions unless people start moving and migrating to other areas just for survival. Every migration in the BOM goes northward and after there are wars and divisions within Zarahemla. The Nephite Church was failing and God needed a new place to start so He prepared a place, Bountiful, long before Christ came. But the land was not ready yet with the last Jaredite war that just ended. Wars are the same irregardless of where and when they took place. The central US was still a very dangerous place to start over with a Jewish family from Israel. and yes God may have protected his family but He has learned that He can only do so much when prophets and righteous people are being killed or stoned, aka the Jewish history. I may not be right on some details but I believe I am closer to the true history of the Nephites. What I have proposed here answers most questions researchers both mainstream and LDS have on the history of the Americas. Where is the evidence? It is based on personal interpretation and we have not found everything regarding American history. We only have a very small portion to work with. It is unfortunate that no professional BOM researcher will consider what I have proposed. Mostly the ones from the Maxwell Institute. So, I just keep this blog up for anyone who might be interested. Thanks for your comment.

      Reply

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