Tag Archives: book of mormon lands

Where is the BOM evidence that says it is true?

Book of Mormon theorists everywhere are looking for the smoking gun that proves once and for all that the Book of Mormon is a true record and that their theory is the most correct of all the theories. Personally, I don’t believe this will ever happen until everyone is in total agreement on the correct interpretation of the Book of Mormon lands and events that took place. Has anyone looked into the One White God traditions of all Native Americans in the Americas? Does anyone know for sure how this tradition began? The way I understand the Book of Mormon is that a small group of foreigners of Jewish descent established a colony probably near the Isthmus of Darien and South America and from there taught the natives their religion, new technology, language, etc. Over the course of hundreds of years these new teachings spread out towards other native tribes throughout South America. Religious practices and government were usually governed by a descendant of the first colonists who were treated as gods. Eventually, like all things governed by man, these teachings became corrupted and a new place needed to be established to continue the teachings of the first colonists. One of these leaders along with as many as would go with him migrated northward and established themselves amongst the early Central American peoples then eventually some of these people moved northward and taught the natives of North America. I believe these colonists later became the Viracochas and other bearded white gods that have been taught for generations amongst the native peoples.   Where is the evidence for this? You will find it in their stories and legends. The legend of the Great White God is the only tradition common to all the native peoples of the Americas, from the Arctic down to South America.  I have to wonder where did they get this idea from? There have to be a common source for this tradition. Some traditions says these gods came from the east while others say from the west. The Book of Mormon and archeology provides some clues. Lehi’s family is believed by some to come from the west  across the Pacific Ocean while Mulek, I believe, came from the east, across the Atlantic Ocean. I have posted links of books that have shown that the Mayans were a sea faring culture as well as Phoenicians crossing both the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. No one will find Jewish DNA  in Native Americans because the early colonist’s later generations became absorbed into the local tribes. Only their teachings have survived the generations and without written records and someone to read them parts of their history became corrupted over time. The Aztec sacrificing humans and taking their hearts, I believe, is a corruption of the Holy Communion taught by Jesus Christ. You must sacrifice yourself in the service of man and the Lord, literally.

To be continued…..sometime.


Hebrew Colonies in the New World.

These two extracts are from Albert James Pickett  History of Alabama :

July 1776: When Milfort arrived among the Creeks, the old men often spoke of their ancestors, and they exhibited to him strands of pearls which contained their history and constituted their archives. Upon their arrangement depended their signification, and only principal events were thus preserved. One of their chaplets sometimes related the history of thirty years. Each year was rapidly distinguished by those who understood them. The old men, therefore, with the assistance of these singular records and strong memories, were enabled to impart to Milfort a correct tradition, the substance of which we give.

(This is similar to the quipu of the Incans.)

In 1822, Big Warrior, who then ruled the Creek confederacy, confirmed this tradition, even going further back than Milfort, taking the Muscogees from Asia, bringing them over the Pacific, landing them near the Isthmus of Darien, and conducting them from thence to this country. “My ancestors were a mighty people. After they reached the waters of the Alabama and took possession of all this country, they went further — conquered the tribes along the Chattahoochie, and upon all the rivers from thence to the Savannah — yes, and even whipped the Indians then living in the territory of South Carolina, and wrestled much of their country from them.” The Big Warrior concluded this sentence with great exultation, when Mr. Compere, to whom he was speaking, interposed an unfortunate question: — “If this is the way your ancestors acquired all the territory now lying in Georgia, how can you blame the American population in that State for endeavoring to take it from you?” Never after that could the worthy missionary extract a solitary item from the Chieftain, in relation to the history of his people. **

You have to wonder where the Chief got the idea that his ancestors came from Asia and landed near the Isthmus of Darian. If James Adair and others are correct and believe that the Muscogees and other tribes have Hebrew sounding words and their traditions are similar to the Hebrews then this might mean that a family or a group of families of Hebrew origins started a colony near the Isthmus of Darian and through the generations ended up in southeastern US. This just a thought that I am still working on.

This is an excellent compilation of the early history of the southeastern United States.  This gives an unbiased look at research that has been done by earlier historians, especially James Adair, Bartram, and Milfort. I read James Adair’s book  The History of the North American Indians and it is a great source of information on tribal customs of the southeastern tribes. One of the things I remember most about this book is that he states that he is not trying to prove that the Indians came from Hebrew origins but presents discoveries made by him of the possibility of Hebrew origins. He was not impressed by scientists living in Washington DC who lived so close to the local tribes and has had many problems with the US government in his trading with the natives and the French. It is a very frank view of his life with the local tribes of Louisiana and Alabama.

These works by Pickett and others should be re-studied and reviewed in light of  small groups of families of Hebrew origins that taught the local natives their religion and advanced knowledge of farming, metallurgy, government, etc. These Hebrew families would have integrated and mixed with the local peoples but their traditions and knowledge would have survived the centuries. This would account for traditions of white, bearded men living amongst the tribes who taught them many new things. And this would account for not being able to find DNA evidence and the seemingly conflicting evidence of Mongolian origins and Hebrew-like language and customs.

This excerpt is from Incidents of Travel in Central America, Chiapas, and Yucatan by John L. Stephens:

According to the manuscript of Don Juan Torres, the grandson of the last king of the Quiches, which was in the possession

of the lieutenant-general appointed by Pedro de Alvarado, and which Fuentes says he obtained by means of Father Francis

Vasques, the historian of the order of San Francis, the Toltecas themselves descended from the house of Israel, who were

released by Moses from the tyranny of Pharaoh, and after crossing the Red Sea, fell into idolatry. To avoid the reproofs

of Moses, or from fear of his inflicting upon them some chastisement, they separated from him and his brethren, and under

the guidance of Tanub, their chief, passed from one continent to the other, to a place which they called the seven caverns,

a part of the kingdom of Mexico, where they founded the celebrated city of Tula. From Tanub sprang the families of the kings

of Tula and Quiche, and the first monarch of the Toltecas.

If this story is true then this would have happened before Lehi and Mulek arrived in the New World and the Mayan empire was already flourishing.  This is this main reason why I don’t believe that Lehi and his family would have landed anywhere near Central America. The time was not right for him to introduce the Church of Christ to these people. Only Mulek and his people who had very little religious teachings nor scriptures would have been able to live amongst these people. They brought ships with them and other things needed for the Mayan empire to grow. More to come…

More to come….

Bearded foreigners article.

I found this interesting article from the Ancient American Foundation website. Lots of great information on this site on Book of Mormon geography.


The Joseph Smith model.

I came across this series of articles presented by Marlene. I wish I had the talent to express my theory as well as she did.  Both of our theories are very similar. My map describes her theory perfectly.

A fresh start.

Well, it seems like I can’t express myself very well by reading the last posts comments. Maybe I was being a little too reactionary or arrogant  in my comments. I was accused of using presentism in my answers to the comments made by the visitor. I don’t believe I was doing this. I was merely trying to show that there are patterns in world’s history that are consistent in every culture no matter where they are located or what era they live in and no matter what religious beliefs they hold. You will find the same patterns in the Bible itself. You simply cannot contain a culture or a society with limited resources in such a small area for very long. Populations will always fluctuate due to several factors like war, invasions by foreign powers, disease, famine, natural disasters, etc. The Nephite nation lasted for 1000 years. I cannot find any culture in history that has survived this long without these things happening to them.

I was thinking about presenting more thoughts and ideas on the limited geography models but now I believe it would be pointless. Those that are strict adherents to this model will defend it to the end and would cause unnecessary arguments on who’s right or wrong.  When I started this blog I wanted to express an alternate view of the Book of Mormon lands and possibly answer the question on how the plates of Mormon ended up in New York. When I first read the Book of Mormon I had no problems understanding and accepting the spiritual lessons taught. But the other parts of the Book was very hard for me to understand and follow. I am one of those types that just cannot simply read something and accept it for what it is. I have to understand what is going on and relate it to what I have learned in my life. I have read many articles on ancient American history before I joined the LDS Church and I had a hard time relating the Book of Mormon to what has been learned about these people living here. So, I started doing some research into the various common theories presented by various LDS researchers since Joseph Smith’s time. The more I read the more confused and frustrated I became. Everyone believes that their model is the only accurate one that would connect the Book of Mormon to discoveries that were being made. It was like trying to decide which church to belong to. Everyone seemed to be right but something was still missing in my view. There is a lot of great information contained in these theories but they did not satisfy the questions I had. I honestly believe that the Book of Mormon is a real history of people living in the Americas and that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from a buried record he discovered in upstate New York. I also believe that there were many different kinds of people from all parts of the world that came here at various times and settled here. I believe, at least in part, the archaeological and historical models presented by many non-LDS researchers. All this was going through my mind in trying to figure out an accurate picture of the history of the native peoples of the Americas. And so I scrapped everything and started fresh. I started with the Book of Mormon and extracted any common elements that are found throughout the book.  I noticed a pattern starting to form and work out a possible theory. You can read more of this pattern in my first posting on this blog.

Basically, my theory is this. Over the 1000 year history of the Nephites they were gradually pushed northward into new lands by the Lamanites; starting with Lehi and ending up in upstate New York in a destructive war. I believe that the Nephites were a mixture of different peoples already living in the lands governed by a literal descendant of Lehi.  When the Nephites migrated into new lands they brought with them their advanced knowledge of farming, metallurgy, warfare, etc. and taught the local societies these new concepts. They also brought with them a new form of religion and were able to convert these peoples through their rulers. It is through this conversion that they became Nephites or members of the Church of Christ. I am still working out out the details of my theory and it is a work in progress.  I am trying to find the right words to express what I believe to be an accurate picture of the history of the native peoples of the Americas. I hope to avoid any unnecessary debates on why my way of thinking is wrong and I want to be as careful as I can in expressing my viewpoints. More to come sometime in the future….

A few thoughts on the Book of Mormon lands.

I have debating tonight on whether to expand on the comments made by me and a visitor on my last posting on the Book of Mormon lands. I don’t mind a good discussion but I don’t want to end up in a long drawn out debate that will lead to no where. I believe I have addressed my viewpoints well enough through my postings and comments but I will re-emphasize them now.

I don’t believe that most of the events that took place in the Book of Mormon could have happened in one small geographical area as suggested by several theories. Knowing what I know about mankind’s history I find it very unlikely that two very large societies, the people of Zarahemla and  the people of the land of Nephi, could exist within a few hundred miles of each other for close to 400 years without knowing the existence of each other. Societies will grow and expand until they reach a large enough barrier to stop its growth for a time, whatever the barriar may be. And even this barrier will somehow be broken through. Nearly every culture or society in the world’s history follows the same pattern. People will migrate to new places searching for a place with enough resources and security to support their families. People will always leave their homes during times of great difficulties whether it be a war, oppression, natural disaster, famine, etc. Some of course will stay to deal with whatever the situation is and the survivors are the ones that will rebuild their cities and towns. During times of peace in a society rulers will generally send explorers out to search out new lands to expand their kingdoms or to search for resources to use in their kingdoms. In the case of the Book of Mormon it is recorded in Omni that there were many wars and contentions with the Lamanites and many years of peace. I find it hard to believe that during all this time that there would be no contact between the two nations. Otherwise why would Mosiah discover the land of Zarahemla? Someone during the nearly 400 years would have brought back news of a large society up north. This would have been common knowledge by Mosiah’s time. There had to be a significant distance or barrier between the two lands for the two societies not to have any contact with each other during all of this time. This is where I stand concerning this model. I know it is not perfect and maybe I have made too many assumptions but this is based on my general knowledge of world history and societies.

To be continued….

Joseph Smith’s Geography Lesson – 1842

Well, it’s been a long, long while since my last posting.  I have been very busy and have put this research aside for a while. I have read a few theories on Book of Mormon geographies and I found that most of them will not recognize Joseph Smith’s comments on where the Nephite lands are. The theories range from exclusively in South America, in Central America or in North America, particularly in New York and the Great Lakes area. While I believe that these theories maybe correct and I am not here to criticize anyone but, for the most part, they seem to leave Joseph Smith out.

Here is an article published in July 1842 in The Times and Seasons, courteous of this fairmormon page.  I have the complete Times and Seasons and I found the rest of the article that the fairmormon excerpted from.


Some have supposed that all the great works of the west, of which we have been treating, belong to our present race of Indians; but from continued wars with each other, have driven themselves from agricultural pursuits, and thinned away their numbers, to that degree, that the wild animals and fishes of the rivers, and wild fruit of the forests, were found sufficient to give them abundant support: on which account, they were reduced to savagism.

But this is answered by the Antiquarian Society, as follows: “Have our present race of Indians ever buried their dead in mounds by thousands? Were they acquainted with the uses of silver or copper? These metals curiously wrought have been found. Did the ancients of our Indians burn the bodies of distinguished chiefs, on funeral piles, and then raise a lofty tumulus over the urn containing their ashes? Did the Indians erect any thing like the “walled towns,” on Paint Creek? Did they ever dig such wells as are found at Marietta, Portsmouth, and above all, such as those in Paint Creek? Did they manufacture vessels from calcareous breccia equal to any now made in Italy?

To this we respond, they never have: no, not even their traditions afford a glimpse of the existence of such things, as forts, tumuli, roads, wells, mounds, walls enclosing between one and two hundred, and even five hundred acres of land; some of them of stone, and others of earth, twenty feet in thickness, and exceeding high, are works requiring too much labor for Indians ever to have performed.

An idol found in a tumulus near Nashville, Tennessee, and now in the Museum of Mr. Clifford, of Lexington, is made of clay, peculiar for its fineness. With this clay was mixed a small portion of gypsum or plaster of Paris. This Idol was made to represent a man, in a state of nudity or nakedness, whose arms had been cut off close to the body, and whose nose and chin have been mutilated, with a fillet and cake upon its head.

Some years since a clay vessel was discovered, about twenty feet below the surface, in alluvial earth, in digging a well near Nashville, Tennessee, and was found standing on a rock, from whence a spring of water issued. This vessel was taken to Peale’s Museum, at Philadelphia. It contains about one gallon; was circular in its shape, with a flat bottom, from which it rises in a somewhat globose form, terminating at the summit with the figure of a female head; the place where the water was introduced, or poured out, was on the one side of it, nearly at the top of the globose part.

Another idol was, a few years since, dug up in Natchez, on the Mississippi, on a piece of ground where, according to tradition, long before Europeans visited this country, stood an Indian temple.-This idol is of stone, and is nineteen inches in height, nine inches in width, and seven inches thich [thick] at the extremities.-On its breast, as represented on the plate of the idol, were five marks, which were evidently characters of some kind, resembling as supposed, the Persian; probably expressing, in the language of its authors, the name and suppssed [supposed] attributes of the senseless god of stone.

One of the arts known to the builders of Babel, was that of brick making; this art was also known to the people who built the works in the west. The knowledge of copper was known to the people of the plains of Shinar, for Noah must have communicated it, as he lived an hundred and fifty years among them after the flood; also, copper was known to the antediluvians. Copper was also known to the authors of the western monuments. Iron was known to the antediluvians; it was also known to the ancients of the west; however, it is evident that very little iron was among them, as very few instances of its discovery in their works have occurred; and for this very reason we draw a conclusion that they came to this country very soon after the dispersion, and brought with them such few articles of iron as have been found in their works in an oxydized [oxidized] state.

Copper ore is very abundant in many places of the west; and therefore, as they had a knowledge of it, when they first came here they knew how to work it, and form it into tools and ornaments. This is the reason why so many articles of this metal are found in their works; and even if they had a knowledge of iron ore, and knew how to work it, all articles made of it must have become oxydized [oxidized] as appears from what few specimens have been found, while those of copper are more imperishable. Gold ornaments are said to have been found in several tumuli. Silver very well plated on copper, has been found in several mounds, besides those at Circleville and Marietta. An ornament of copper was found in a stone mound near Chilicothe; it was a bracelet for the ancle [ankle] or wrist.

The ancients of Asia, immediately after the dispersion, were acquainted with ornaments made of the various metals; for in the family of Terah, who was the father of Abraham and Nahor, we find these ornaments in use for the beautifying of females. See the servant of Abraham, at the well of Bethuel [Bethel] in the country of “Ur of the Chaldeans,” or Mesopotamia, which is not very far from the place where Babel stood-putting a jewell [jewel] of gold upon the face or forehead of Rebecca, weighing half a shekel, and two bracelets for her wrists, or arms. Bracelets for the same use have been found in the west; all of which circumstances go to establish the acquaintance of those who made those ornaments of silver and copper found in the mounds of the west, equal with those of Ur in Chaldea. The families of Peleg, Reu, Serug, and Nahor, who were the immediate progenitors of Abraham, lived at an era but little after the flood; and yet we find them in the possession of ornaments of this kind; from which we conclude a knowledge both of the metals, and how to make ornaments, as above described, was brought by Noah and his family from beyond the flood.

On the shores of the Mississippi, some miles below Lake Pepin, on a fine plain, exists an artificial elevation of about four feet high, extending a full mile, in somewhat of a circular form. It is sufficiently capacious to have covered 5000 men. Every angle of the breast work is yet traceable, though much defaced by time. Here, it is likely, conflicting realms as great as those of the ancient Greeks and Persians, decided the fate of ambitious Monarchs, of the Chinese, Mongol descent.

Weapons of brass have been found in many parts of America, as in the Canadas, Florida, &c., with curiously sculptured stones, all of which go to prove that this country was once peopled with civilized, industrious nations,-now traversed the greater part by savage hunters.-Priests American Antiquities.

The Book of Mormon speaks of ores, swords, cities, armies, &c., and we extract the following:–

And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass, and the horse, and the goat, and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper.

And it came to pass that the Lord commanded me, wherefore I did make plates of ore, that I might engraven npon [upon] them the record of my people. * * *

And it came to pass that we began to prosper exceedingly, and to multiply in the land. And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites, should come upon us and destroy us: for I knew their hatred towards me and my children, and those who were called my people. And I did teach my people to build buildings; and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in abundance. And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon, save it were not built of so many precious things: for they were not to be found upon the land; wherefore it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceeding fine.

In regard to there being great wars, the following will shew [show]:-

And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the words which Ether had spoken unto him…he saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly two millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children. He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled, thus far, every whit; and his soul mourned, and refused to be comforted. . . . . .

And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people, upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether. And it came to sass [pass] that Ether did behold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr, were gathered together for the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz, were gathered together to the army of Shiz; wherefore they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was profitable that they could receive. And it came to pass that when they were all gathering together, every one to the army which he would with their wives and their children; both men, women, and children being armed with weapons of war, having shields and breast plates, and head plates, and being clothed after the manner of war, they did march forth one against another, to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not. And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps, they took up a howling and a lamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that it did rend the air exceedingly.

If men, in their researches into the history of this country, in noticing the mounds, fortifications, statues, architecture, implements of war, of husbandry, and ornaments of silver, brass, &c.-were to examine the Book of Mormon, their conjectures would be removed, and their opinions altered; uncertainty and doubt would be changed into certainty and facts; and they would find that those things that they are anxiously prying into were matters of history, unfolded in that book. They would find their conjectures were more than realized-that a great and a mighty people had inhabited this continent-that the arts sciences and religion, had prevailed to a very great extent, and that there was as great and mighty cities on this continent as on the continent of Asia. Babylon, Ninevah, nor any of the ruins of the Levant could boast of more perfect sculpture, better architectural designs, and more imperishable ruins, than what are found on this continent. Stephens and Catherwood’s researches in Central America abundantly testify of this thing. The stupendous ruins, the elegant sculpture, and the magnificence of the ruins of Guatamala [Guatemala], and other cities, corroborate this statement, and show that a great and mighty people-men of great minds, clear intellect, bright genius, and comprehensive designs inhabited this continent. Their ruins speak of their greatness; the Book of Mormen [Mormon} unfolds their history.-ED.

I like how the author on the fairmormon page wrote this line  before and after the excerpt: NOTE: Page 862 of this issue of the Times and Seasons states: “The Times and Seasons, Is edited, printed and published about the first and fifteenth of every month, on the corner of Water and Bain Streets, Nauvoo, Hancock County, Illinois, by JOSEPH SMITH”   and  This statement was signed “ED,” which attributes it directly to Joseph Smith.

So there is no question who wrote this article, if you chose to accept it as a true statement made by Joseph Smith. Now, I don’t know whether he was being prophetic, inspired or his own thoughts but I do know this and I have stated this before, that Joseph Smith is the only one that has spoken directly with the Angel Moroni, the last Nephite of the Book of Mormon, once a year for several years. He may have been instructed not to write down anything that was taught to him including where the Book of Mormon lands are until later and only in small amounts. He was the only one that was the most familiar with the Book of Mormon peoples. Now, if Joseph Smith was trusted enough to be given the keys of the Priesthood and given the authority to restart the Church of Christ in this dispensation why wouldn’t he be told about the Nephite’s history and lands?

What I have done in my theory was to piece together all of his statements, the Book of Mormon migrations, archeology, Native American traditions and statements made by early American settlers and explorers. It produced a pattern that is not hard to miss. I just connected the dots. And now, I have a better understanding of the Book of Mormon and where the events took place. All of this is only possible if you chose to believe in what Joseph Smith has taught, both in spiritual and temporal matters, and are willing to accept it as the truth and stand by it, no matter what anyone says.

I will work harder in the future to post more of my thoughts on ancient history and to post any articles I come across on the internet. Thank you for taking the time to visit this blog and it is my hope that you will take the time and study what I have published and share my thoughts with your family and friends.